[mweisse]

For those of you who don't know, Michael Hutchison wrote Megabrain, Mega Brain Power, The Book Of Floating and other books. He was a central figure in this industry in the 80's and early 90's. If you haven't read his books they are really quite well done.

While browsing around I found this interesting email from Hutchison. Given the conversations here about Holosync I thought I'd post it.

Michael Hutchison said:

Dear David,
I have much to say about the holo sync process, none of it good. Among other things I suggest you look up on internet such words as Beta brain waves head injury brain damage (that would be one search) and also kindling effect brain. Also brain wave hypersynchrony and brain damage. these are just a few the starting points. I will tell more when I have time but right now I am in the middle of some difficulties. I am suffering from pneumonia, I had a DVT (deep vein thrombosis, or blood clot) for which I am taking medication to keep the blood clot from breaking loose and causing pulmonary thrombosis, heart stroke, or brain hemorrhage. I am suffering from a high fever and am supposed to be staying in bed all the time. So maybe you can write me with what you find and with what your effects of overload have been- I have heard almost the exact same list of symptoms from other users of Centerpoint tapes as well as in scientific articles about kindling in the brain and brainwave hypersynchrony. Stay in touch please and thank you for writting. Yours truly,
Mike

http://integralnaked...tmode=1&smode=1

Some other interesting discussion from this thread:

Quote

Lizzie,
I'm sorry if I burst your bubble here...... But according to Michael Hutchison
(I've had several conversations with him about this) The "overwhelm" that
is commonly experienced with Holosync is not as Bill Harris would have you believe...... it is symptomatic of brain function abnormality. This condition does not contribute to growth in consciousness and is not considered beneficial in any way.

To be fair there may be some benefits in using Holosync however, there are
definitely some dangers too. The dangers have really been historically greatly
down-played by Centerpointe.

Holosync responded to these remarks, saying that they haven't had any FDA complaints so there's nothing to worry about. Instead of that, I would have preferred some medical literature on the "overwhelm" effect they talk about. If they're sure its a normal effect, where is their proof? Why not try eliminating this effect? I don't get this effect from Transparent's products yet I get 3X the benefits and get them much faster.

After experiencing Awakening Minds, Centerpointe, Hemi-Sync and many others, I am lead to the conclusion that "overwhelm" is a glitch in the entrainment process, possibly because holosync uses such low frequencies, as Hutchison mentioned. Every medical study I have read has had successful treatment periods of 2-3 months spanning 30-60 sessions, with NO mention of "overwhelm". If Holosync worked like the studies it references, it would only have one CD and would show measurable effects in at least 6 months (as opposed to 5 years) without any of the "overwhelm". Even if Hutchison is wrong, where is the medical literature that says to accomplish something with entrainment you have to use a progressively lower CD? I just don't understand where they're getting this from, and their responses to people's questions don't answer much...

MW

[waverider]

I had come across the above when first trying to learn about entrainment as well.

My primary interest would be how this generalizes to entrainment, not just holosync. MW, what are these medial studies you have read that used entrainment, and what condition were they trying to treat? If you are using entrainment for meditation/relaxation, that's an on-going process, there's really nothing to treat and no clear endpoint to treatment. It would be different with say ADD, but then they are using different frequencies. I also wonder if the ADD stuff is a one-time treatment (permanent brain/cognitive changes) or has to be repeated for continued success.

When I used holosync, I was under the impression that they were trying to avoid overwhelm by having the graduated program. You say you don't get this effect from Transparent's program, with better benefits, but Transparent doesn't even have a built in program similar to Holosync's - so again, what freq's are you using, what condition are you trying to treat, and how does this relate to what Holosync offers?

I came across warnings not to use higher beta freqs because they can cause anxiety. Isn't that what Hutchinson is referring to in suggesting to look up "beta brain waves head injury brain damage" - wouldnt' that make Transparent's products more dangerours than holosync because they have a lot more intensive beta stuff such as the IQ?

Brainwave hypersynchrony - is that only something to fear from delta entrainment, not from the other freq ranges?

I have also concluded that the vaunted holosync effect is mostly about the use of low carriers, rather than any permanent entrainment. But, I havn't used the program to the end, and many people claim good results. I also can't prove that using theta entrainment will have a long term effect - so far it seems to be working for me.

The best argument for Transparent that I can see is that you can make your own sessions, you can mimic holosync if you want, so it saves a bundle of money and is more interesting to boot. I do wonder about some of the treatments that Adam offers however. Are there really well designed studies that show that stimulating the right brain hemisphere with beta, using lower freqs for the left hemishere is a successful treatment for depression? With anxiety being such an integral part of depression, I would have thought for many people entraining to more calming states might be more effective. Is there really a lot of medical literature out there about use of this stuff - if so, a few links would be appreciated.


Shanti

[mweisse]

Holosync advertises a lot more than just meditation. They say it can improve learning, help improve cognition, help balance you emotionally and all kinds of other effects.

On their main page I just found this:

Holosync Main Page Claim said:

Dramatically improve your learning ability, memory, intuition, creativity, and your ability to focus, concentrate and think more clearly…

Now you tell me, where's the literature saying Delta frequencies have that effect?

Quote

I came across warnings not to use higher beta freqs because they can cause anxiety. Isn't that what Hutchinson is referring to in suggesting to look up "beta brain waves head injury brain damage" - wouldnt' that make Transparent's products more dangerours than holosync because they have a lot more intensive beta stuff such as the IQ?

No, Hutchison is referring to the fact that beta brainwaves are deficient in head injury, and delta/theta are overactive for those people, thus the reason he has bad things to say about holosync's process

Doing a simple web search (actually copying and pasting exactly what hutchison recommended) I get this: http://www.hp-add.com/injury.htm

from above link said:

Examination of brain activity through the use of computerized EEG (called qEEG) frequently shows an increase in the amount of slow brainwaves (especially theta) in one or more areas of the brain along with a reduction of faster brainwaves (called beta). These changes are associated with reduced efficiency of brain activity depending on the location and the extent of trauma.

Also, beta ranges from 12+. 12-20 won't give you anxiety, they're useful for increasing concentration, depression, etc. 20+ can give anxiety though. There are multiple levels of beta...

Where's the medical literature for entrainment? I remember a recent thread asking about it that adam posted in. Also there's lots of links in the Member's Area, not to mention the studies referenced in the documentation. Why not look them up? Journal of Neurotherapy would be a good place to start

MW

[admin]

Quote

Are there really well designed studies that show that stimulating the right brain hemisphere with beta, using lower freqs for the left hemishere is a successful treatment for depression?

Actually you have that wrong, it is the opposite: stimulating the left hemisphere with fast frequencies and stimulating the right with lower frequencies can help with depression. What we're trying to do here is decrease activity in the right (emotional) brain hemisphere.

For more information on the science behind depression and other sessions, check out these pages: http://www.transpare...w.php#learnmore

References are at the bottom of every page

David Siever's "Protocol Guide for Professionals" is also a great overview of some of these more modern protocols.

Thanks,

Adam

[waverider]

here is an interview with Michael Hutchinson. Here's a quote:

"Q: What concerns do you have regarding the AVS industry? A: "One thing that concerns me is the whole problem of hucksterism, wildly exaggerated claims, false advertising, snake oil salesmen, and so on. There is a lot of that going on, and it worries me. For example, one leading manufacturer of psychoacoustic tapes has admitted in court to using false advertising. Amazingly, this manufacturer claims to see nothing wrong with it, and said, "Everybody does it."

Another problem is the possibility of potential harmful effects on the brain. People need to be aware that these devices and these technologies can have powerful effects on the brain. The brain can be a very fragile instrument, and is susceptible to damage, if harmful techniques are used. For example, one neurotechnology product may cause neuronal death, brain damage, and seizures. Also, it's well known that attention deficit disorders, brain trauma, learning disabilities, and various cognitive dysfunctions are directly linked with too much slow brain wave activity, such as delta and slow theta. Yet, we have a lot of psychoacoustic tapes and CDs, electrostim devices, and light and sound machines whose manufacturers are encouraging people to use them to entrain theta and slow delta, when in fact this is the last thing many people need, for this is only going to make their cognitive problems worse. In fact, brain wave entrainment, if used improperly, can create a harmful state, known as hypersynchrony, and negatively affect performance for days."




I havn't been to the holosync site for a long time. I know they are apt to make overstated claims, it's one thing that put me off them. If, however, delta has an anxiolytic effect, then it could have the beneficial effects you mention - as does traditional meditation. Reduction of anxiety certainly increases performance in many cases.


While for many people theta and delta are the last thing they need, for many others it's beneficial, and beta may be the last thing they need. As usual it comes down to the individual. Maybe Adam needs to post more warnigs about not using slow waves if you have brain damage for instance.

I did a quick search with what he suggested - yes it seems his concerns are for treating brain damage incurred before the use of entrainemt - the quote makes it sound like the entrainment caused the damage.

That leaves the kindling effect (sensitization of the brain) the and hypersynchrony (massive simultaneous firing of brain cells). Not much I could find on entrainment, and nothing on that only delta is a problem here. I did come across a post where the person said they became sensitized to beta entraiment (may have even been a transparent product) and now can't use it anymore.



So is there any info out there for the hazards of this stuff? (Aside from your wallet if you go holosync). Anything on the hazards of low carriers?


Adam - I read the info you posted on depression. Guess I should have done so before I shot my mouth off. I'm glad you posted the alpha/theta recommendation as well. I suggest including a suggestion to try alpha/theta in the instructions for the depression sessions it those don't work.

[waverider]

While searching 'theta decrease" here's something I came across:

"OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the incidence, sensitivity and specificity of abnormal quantitative EEG (QEEG) measures in normal subjects and patients with mental disorders. METHODS: Normalized QEEG measures were blindly assessed in 67 normal human beings and 340 psychiatric patients. QEEG results were correlated to subject condition or diagnosis and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) findings. RESULTS: QEEG was abnormal in 83% of patients, and 12% of normal subjects. The most frequent abnormality was a decrease in slow (delta and/or theta) bands, either alone, with beta increase, or with alpha decrease, followed by increase in beta band. No normal subject showed delta and/or theta decrease. Slow band decrease was more frequent in depression and mental disorders due to general medical condition, alcohol and drug dependence. However, no pattern was specific of any entity, and patients within the same diagnostic may present different patterns. Delta-theta decrease was correlated with cortical atrophy as seen in MRI. Beta increase was correlated with psychoactive medication. No association was found between any other QEEG pattern and MRI abnormalities, or medication. CONCLUSIONS: Decrease in the delta and theta bands of the QEEG can be regarded as a specific sign of brain dysfunction, and is correlated with cortical atrophy. However, this sign, as other QEEG abnormal patterns, can be found in many different disorders and none of them can be considered as pathognomonic of any specific disorder. SIGNIFICANCE: This work attempted to circumvent the alleged lack of Class I evidence of QEEG utility in the study of psychiatric patients by means of a prospective, blinded study, searching for specific signs of physiopathology in individual patients."

[Bodhi]

I find the above quotes from Hutchinson odd - not that he is critical of Holosync, I am as well - but that he would be acqusitory rather then appolegetic(sp?). HIs book Megabrain Power highly recomends alpha and theta sesions with little waring of possible dangers. He also himself produced a tape set with lots of alpha, theta and delta entainment.

[Planet_Jeroen]

Everything can be dangerous, when used wrong. The problem is: it only get's dangerous when used (in the wong way), so the question (IMHO) should be, what should you use for which conditions, and which precautions should be taken.

It boils down to being aware of what you are doing, and when and why you do it. Which requires research on your own account. Not just blind faith.

On HoloSync: It is a relatively good program, for an absurd price. But then again, how many people are willing to create their own sessions, conduct their own research, etc. ? I don't blame Centerpointe either for not releasing their research, if it excists, for it would destroy their business and make all of us potential Centerpointes. Besides, you get a lot of customer support from them, if you call them. Don't rely on email tho

I havent noticed any 'overwhelm' from the Centerpointe program, but I never made it past the first cd-set. I do own some other material from them (an online course, with the goal of maximising the holoSync effect) and I can't say it's BS. True, hundreds of people already wrote some of it, have courses in it themselves etc. but the material was quality/price wise good.

I DID notice a very relaxed state while being awake, sortof like trance. Today I make those sessions myself with a less annoying background music, but it was worth the initial payment to get to know it.

I'm starting to get lenghty here... my point is: If you don't know what you're doing and/or why you are doing it, anything can be dangerous. Never believe a nice smile and a story, just because you want it to be true.


Regards,

Jeroen

[waverider]

Planet_Jeroen, on Nov 1 2005, 04:03 PM, said:

Everything can be dangerous, when used wrong. The problem is: it only get's dangerous when used (in the wong way), so the question (IMHO) should be, what should you use for which conditions, and which precautions should be taken.

It boils down to being aware of what you are doing, and when and why you do it. Which requires research on your own account. Not just blind faith.

Well sure Jeroen - but the question you ask is already the one being asked - and there aren't a lot of answers out there that I've heard. What I took away from Hutchinson is if you have braindamage don't use slow wave entrainment. OTOH the abstract I quoted seems to be saying that theta/delta decrease is a result of braindamage or mental illnes - you would think increasing theta/delta would help in that case. If there are dangers with this stuff, aside from the usual seizure warnings, I would like to know. But this Hutchinson stuff is the only stuff I found when I searched the web - it didn't seem to lead anywhere, and it didn't when I followd MW's links this time either.

I wanted to challenge MW a bit - it's one thing to trash holosync for their pushiness and possible lack of effectiveness and research, it's another to say they are dangerours but Transparent's stuff isn't.

I really wonder what product causes "neuronal death".

Planet_Jeroen, on Nov 1 2005, 04:03 PM, said:

On HoloSync: It is a relatively good program, for an absurd price. But then again, how many people are willing to create their own sessions, conduct their own research, etc. ? I don't blame Centerpointe either for not releasing their research, if it excists, for it would destroy their business and make all of us potential Centerpointes. Besides, you get a lot of customer support from them, if you call them. Don't rely on email tho 

I havent noticed any 'overwhelm' from the Centerpointe program, but I never made it past the first cd-set. I do own some other material from them (an online course, with the goal of maximising the holoSync effect) and I can't say it's BS. True, hundreds of people already wrote  some of it, have courses in it themselves etc. but the material was quality/price wise good.

I DID notice a very relaxed state while being awake, sortof like trance. Today I make those sessions myself with a less annoying background music, but it was worth the initial payment to get to know it.

I'm starting to get lenghty here... my point is: If you don't know what you're doing and/or why you are doing it, anything can be dangerous. Never believe a nice smile and a story, just because you want it to be true.
Regards,

Jeroen

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't notice overwhelm from holosync either - but that's their claim of why they have the graduated program - to avoid overwhelm.

How do you know its a good program when you only tried the first of 13 levels? (I"m not saying it's not). It's certainly not a good value, we're agreed on that. As you know, I'm finding better succes with theat entrainment than I noticed with Awakening level 1 (ie level 2 of the program).

Certainly holosync should (does in my experience) produce a realaxed, trance state - as Adam says, delta has a calming effect on the limbic system and hypothalamus - that would do it. But, does is that all there is to it - sort of an electronic tranquilizer, or do people who use it regularly and complete the program notice long term changes in their lives. I'm put off by the whole energy of the site and Bill Harris - he's his own worst advertisement in my opinion.

You should have asked for your money back on Prologue after giving it a try. Me I was gullible/desparate/intrigued enough to go for level 1 and then realized it just seemed to be a temporary jolt to the system that wore off rapidly.

[Planet_Jeroen]

To get rid of one false statement: HS relies on the overwhelm, and it should be there in all levels, just not a massive ammount. The theory is that the mind is an open system, that, when pushed long enough, evolves in a 'bigger' system which can easily handle the extra stress.

And my reason for not returning AP is that that cd seemed to have had contact with rabits, and therefore I couldnt justify me returning it.

The reason I say it's a good program, for those who want an off-the-shelve sollution, is that I have a few long time meditators in my surroundings, who all reported the general same state they get from meditation, through the use of the cd. Only not as deep. (Which is logical when you take AP as the test subject)

"Neuronal death" is caused by reading too much of the advertisements shot in your mailbox by Bill and his affiliate program partners

Regards,

Jeroen

[mweisse]

Waverider,

I found the link to that abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm....9&dopt=Abstract

They're not studying brain damage, but are studying a range of psychiatric conditions including alcohol and drug dependence, of which theta and delta decrease is well documented. Bottom line is that a deficiency (or excessive amount) of any brainwave range is unhealthy. Same with hormones and a million other human traits. Balance is the key. And there's always exceptions to rules on a person by person basis.

Too much slower frequencies is not only a sign of brain damange but of depression, add, chronic fatigue, etc. If you look in the wizard in NP2 it will ask you a question about whether you have any of these disorders. If you do it will exclude theta sessions from the recommendations.

Quote

I wanted to challenge MW a bit - it's one thing to trash holosync for their pushiness and possible lack of effectiveness and research, it's another to say they are dangerours but Transparent's stuff isn't.

I don't think that's fair. Transparent has a product with hundreds of programs, ranging from delta to beta, with titles indicating their specific purpose, research and example protocols included, and a wizard with helpful questions such as the above to guide you in the right direction. Whereas other programs offer a single Delta CD and claim it can help with ADD and god knows what else? Based on what? And they put absolutely NO warnings in their advertising? It seems to me the very people who want programs like holosync are people who are depressed, want emotional release, etc. Their probably the last people who should be using according to all I've seen regarding brainwaves.

Besides, all I've done is ask where the medical literature is on "overwhelm".

Waverider, I know you're trying to challenge people, but maybe it would be a good idea to read up on this stuff beforehand? In your first post of this thread you didn't even know entrainment had been used in medical studies! I'm not trying to offend, I'm just saying if you're going to challenge people, and going to engage in discussion, do the research on your own first before you say there's no research on this, or people should do that, and so on. Bear in mind if you give advise to someone here it could lead them in the wrong direction. For example someone comes here, sees you saying brain damaged people can benefit from theta/delta and then you know the rest. Again, not trying to offend you, I'm just saying you seem a bit new to stuff and may want to read everything before you jump to conclusions

But I appreciate your discussion and challenges just the same.

Bodhi said:

I find the above quotes from Hutchinson odd - not that he is critical of Holosync, I am as well - but that he would be acqusitory rather then appolegetic(sp?). HIs book Megabrain Power highly recomends alpha and theta sesions with little waring of possible dangers. He also himself produced a tape set with lots of alpha, theta and delta entainment.

I don't think he's speaking against all theta/delta entrainment. Seems to me he's just speaking against someone selling CDs as cure-alls for medical conditions when they could make those same medical conditions worse (re: ADD, brain damage, depression, etc). Personally I think this is a reasonable complaint, and I DO NOT think it applies to this industry at large, just those companise selling one CD or a CD set that "cures everything", ala Holosync. That's hucksterism, IMHO

Cheers
MW

[waverider]

[quote name='Planet_Jeroen' date='Nov 2 2005, 04:35 AM']
To get rid of one false statement: HS relies on the overwhelm, and it should be there in all levels, just not a massive ammount. The theory is that the mind is an open system, that, when pushed long enough, evolves in a 'bigger' system which can easily handle the extra stress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, OK - guess it's a matter of wording. I know they are quite careful to tell you to ease into each level, put a limit on the time spent listening, and like I said state the reason for having the levels is to prevent people "freaking out." So what do you want to say - they don't want you to be overwhelmed by the overwhelm? I take overwhelm to mean you have pushed the system too far, maybe they or you use it to mean something else - I might say challenge.


[quote name='Planet_Jeroen' date='Nov 2 2005, 04:35 AM']
The reason I say it's a good program, for those who want an off-the-shelve sollution, is that I have a few long time meditators in my surroundings, who all reported the general same state they get from meditation, through the use of the cd. Only not as deep. (Which is logical when you take AP as the test subject)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I'm a reasonably long term meditator. I found even level 1 - yes in some ways the state is actually "deeper" than most of my meditations, except maybe at a few retreats - but by deeper I just mean a stronger body effect - certainly my mindfulness and sens of oneness were not as strong with holosync as with many meditation sessions. OTOH neither did I have to deal with monkey mind and feeling very antsy when using holosync. It is the mindfulness and oneness that is just starting to creep into my theta sessions, which is why I find theta a better choice. I think even if true, that delta puts you into the deepest meditative states, most people would want to practise at higher states first, because being in the state and being aware might be two different things.

[waverider]

mweisse, on Nov 2 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

Waverider,

I found the link to that abstract: http://www.ncbi.nlm....9&dopt=Abstract

They're not studying brain damage, but are studying a range of psychiatric conditions including alcohol and drug dependence, of which theta and delta decrease is well documented. Bottom line is that a deficiency (or excessive amount) of any brainwave range is unhealthy. Same with hormones and a million other human traits. Balance is the key. And there's always exceptions to rules on a person by person basis.

Too much slower frequencies is not only a sign of brain damange but of depression, add, chronic fatigue, etc. If you look in the wizard in NP2 it will ask you a question about whether you have any of these disorders. If you do it will exclude theta sessions from the recommendations.

Were you able to access the whole paper? (Sorry for not including the link).

They are going to have to watch their nomenclature when they say things like "12% of normal subjects showed abnormal QEEG."

From reading the abstract, I still come away with "Delta-theta decrease was correlated with cortical atrophy as seen in MRI." I'm thinking that's brain damage.

Interesting about the wizard, because in the documentation Adam says that 'depression can also be caused by stress, high anxiety, insomnia or low energy' for which re recommends alpha/theta. We're dangerously close to getting into a long discussion about what is depression anyway, maybe better stay away from that - suffice to say that I'm skeptical of the medical model as having it nailed - I see depression as a syndrome, not a disease. Anyway, it sounds like before a person with serious depression uses entrainment they should get an EEG done to see if they do show slow wave disorder. We know that's not going to happen in a lot of cases. This technology is readily available and people will read depression and begin self-medicating. That does seem to me to be a danger with Transparent's technology - it could make someone more depressed - either that, or the technology isn't powerful enough to cause problems - but then is it powrful enough for treatment?

mweisse, on Nov 2 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

I don't think that's fair. Transparent has a product with hundreds of programs, ranging from delta to beta, with titles indicating their specific purpose, research and example protocols included, and a wizard with helpful questions such as the above to guide you in the right direction. Whereas other programs offer a single Delta CD and claim it can help with ADD and god knows what else? Based on what? And they put absolutely NO warnings in their advertising? It seems to me the very people who want programs like holosync are people who are depressed, want emotional release, etc. Their probably the last people who should be using according to all I've seen regarding brainwaves.

Besides, all I've done is ask where the medical literature is on "overwhelm".

Well I've already pointed out a danger with Transparent above. I agree that Adam is being much more responsible and trying his best to steer people in the right direction. But in a way, that can also be a problem - this site feels more clinical to me so people might be even more likely to self-medicate using NP2 which could be problem if they have a serious condition. OTOH, I have been struck on how well functioning the most of the people on this forum seem to be vs what I saw on the Awakened Mind forum. But then people who are attracted to Transparent seem to be more the cognitve left brain crowd - maybe all this rational discussion just covers up a host of maladaption, repression, etc

After reading Jeroen I think there seem to be more than one interpretation of overwhelm (and no I can't be bothered to check holosyncs site to see who's right) As I said - holosync seems to have recommendations and a graduated program so you don't get overwhelmed - just challenged.

mweisse, on Nov 2 2005, 07:35 AM, said:

Waverider, I know you're trying to challenge people, but maybe it would be a good idea to read up on this stuff beforehand? In your first post of this thread you didn't even know entrainment had been used in medical studies! I'm not trying to offend, I'm just saying if you're going to challenge people, and going to engage in discussion, do the research on your own first before you say there's no research on this, or people should do that, and so on. Bear in mind if you give advise to someone here it could lead them in the wrong direction. For example someone comes here, sees you saying brain damaged people can benefit from theta/delta and then you know the rest. Again, not trying to offend you, I'm just saying you seem a bit new to stuff and may want to read everything before you jump to conclusions

But I appreciate your discussion and challenges just the same.

Some very good points here MW. However I certainly didn't say that braindamaged people can benefit from theta/delta. I just printed the abstract and what I think it said.

I am new to stuff, will likely continue to jump to conclusions, and misbehave in other ways - but I'm sure this will be pointed out to me.

I'm glad you appreciate the challenges - I do too - it's a good way to learn, IMO - even when I'm shown to have shot my mouth off a bit too quick this time. But I was able to resurrect my self esteem by being able to challenge the challenge a bit I hope.


I'm still interested in what the danger of hypersynchrony is and if it only applies to theta/delta or to all entrainment. Also what are the dangers of entraining to beta for "non slow wave depression symptoms etc" can this exacerbate the condition and so, again, should there be a stronger warning for people trying to heal themselves to get an EEG done first?

One reason I challenged you (and Transparent at times) MW, is because I care about Transparent, it's good stuff, while I don't care about Holosync. I prefer to try to look for the weaknesses in something that I'm interested in. Trashing holosync is more or less just beating a dead horse IMO.

Shanti